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split from 2.2.1 - disallow account lockout #2134

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elarlang opened this issue Oct 9, 2024 · 3 comments
Open

split from 2.2.1 - disallow account lockout #2134

elarlang opened this issue Oct 9, 2024 · 3 comments
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1) Discussion ongoing Issue is opened and assigned but no clear proposal yet Community wanted We would like feedback from the community to guide our decision otherwise we will progress V2 _5.0 - prep This needs to be addressed to prepare 5.0

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@elarlang
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elarlang commented Oct 9, 2024

Spin-off from #1763 (comment)

As current 2.2.1 requires work, and should have a clear anti-automation goal, it makes sense to separate the lockout part from this.

First question is - do we need this requirement? What NIST says about it? How it can fire back?

In practice - I have seen "enough times" solutions that via some web application authentication form you can lock out an entire organization or company user base with incorrect credentials.

Idea proposal from @tghosth

Verify that malicious users cannot lock out legitimate users and admins through excessive incorrect login attempts?

This serves to goal to explain the idea, but should be written as positive requirement.

@tghosth
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tghosth commented Oct 9, 2024

I feel that we satisfy this enough by not requiring lockout and I don't really want a separate requirement but I am open to suggestions.

@tghosth tghosth added _5.0 - prep This needs to be addressed to prepare 5.0 Community wanted We would like feedback from the community to guide our decision otherwise we will progress 1) Discussion ongoing Issue is opened and assigned but no clear proposal yet labels Oct 9, 2024
@elarlang
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elarlang commented Oct 16, 2024

What NIST says about it?

For my surprise, NIST kind of agrees to "no lockout" direction (although not requiring it).

3.2.2 Rate Limiting (Throttling)

Additional techniques MAY be used to reduce the likelihood that an attacker will lock the legitimate claimant out due to rate limiting. These include:

  • Requiring the claimant to complete a bot-detection and mitigation challenge before attempting authentication
  • Requiring the claimant to wait after a failed attempt for a period of time that increases as the subscriber account approaches its maximum allowance for consecutive failed attempts (e.g., 30 seconds up to an hour)
  • Accepting only authentication requests from IP addresses from which the subscriber has been successfully authenticated before
  • Leveraging other risk-based or adaptive authentication techniques to identify user behavior that falls within or outside typical norms (e.g., the use of the claimant’s IP address, geolocation, timing of request patterns, or browser metadata)

@tghosth
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tghosth commented Oct 21, 2024

So do you still want a separate requirement here? if so, what is your proposed wording @elarlang ?

@elarlang elarlang self-assigned this Oct 21, 2024
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1) Discussion ongoing Issue is opened and assigned but no clear proposal yet Community wanted We would like feedback from the community to guide our decision otherwise we will progress V2 _5.0 - prep This needs to be addressed to prepare 5.0
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