diff --git a/ovos_utils/configuration.py b/ovos_utils/configuration.py
index fb63df28..9a234928 100644
--- a/ovos_utils/configuration.py
+++ b/ovos_utils/configuration.py
@@ -1,19 +1,80 @@
-from ovos_utils.system import search_mycroft_core_location, is_running_from_module
-from ovos_utils.xdg_utils import (
-    xdg_config_home,
-    xdg_config_dirs,
-    xdg_data_home,
-    xdg_data_dirs,
-    xdg_cache_home
-)
-from os.path import expanduser, isfile
-from os import makedirs
 import json
+from os import makedirs
+from os.path import join, expanduser, exists, isfile
+
+import ovos_utils.xdg_utils as xdg
+from ovos_utils.log import LOG
 
 
-# if ovos-config not installed, these methods are still needed internally
+# TODO - deprecate this submodule in 0.1.0
+# note that a couple of these are also used inside ovos-utils
+# perhaps those usages should also move into workshop ?
+
+def get_default_lang():
+    LOG.warning("configuration moved to the `ovos_config` package. This submodule "
+                "will be removed in ovos_utils 0.1.0")
+    try:
+        from ovos_config.locale import get_default_lang as _get
+        return _get()
+    except ImportError:
+        return read_mycroft_config().get("lang", "en-us")
+
+
+def find_user_config():
+    LOG.warning("configuration moved to the `ovos_config` package. This submodule "
+                "will be removed in ovos_utils 0.1.0")
+    try:
+        from ovos_config.locations import find_user_config as _get
+        return _get()
+    except ImportError:
+
+        return join(get_xdg_config_save_path(), get_config_filename())
+
+
+def get_webcache_location():
+    LOG.warning("configuration moved to the `ovos_config` package. This submodule "
+                "will be removed in ovos_utils 0.1.0")
+    return join(get_xdg_config_save_path(), 'web_cache.json')
+
+
+def get_config_locations(default=True, web_cache=True, system=True,
+                         old_user=True, user=True):
+    LOG.warning("configuration moved to the `ovos_config` package. This submodule "
+                "will be removed in ovos_utils 0.1.0")
+    try:
+        from ovos_config.locations import get_config_locations as _get
+        return _get(default, web_cache, system, old_user, user)
+    except ImportError:
+        locs = []
+        ovos_cfg = get_ovos_config()
+        if default:
+            locs.append(ovos_cfg["default_config_path"])
+        if system:
+            locs.append(f"/etc/{ovos_cfg['base_folder']}/{ovos_cfg['config_filename']}")
+        if web_cache:
+            locs.append(get_webcache_location())
+        if old_user:
+            locs.append(f"~/.{ovos_cfg['base_folder']}/{ovos_cfg['config_filename']}")
+        if user:
+            locs.append(f"{get_xdg_config_save_path()}/{ovos_cfg['config_filename']}")
+        return locs
+
+
+def get_ovos_config():
+    LOG.warning("configuration moved to the `ovos_config` package. This submodule "
+                "will be removed in ovos_utils 0.1.0")
+    try:
+        from ovos_config.meta import get_ovos_config as _get
+        return _get()
+    except ImportError:
+        return {"xdg": True,
+                "base_folder": "mycroft",
+                "config_filename": "mycroft.conf"}
+
 
 def get_xdg_base():
+    LOG.warning("configuration moved to the `ovos_config` package. This submodule "
+                "will be removed in ovos_utils 0.1.0")
     try:
         from ovos_config.meta import get_xdg_base as _get
         return _get()
@@ -21,7 +82,54 @@ def get_xdg_base():
         return "mycroft"
 
 
+def get_xdg_config_locations():
+    LOG.warning("configuration moved to the `ovos_config` package. This submodule "
+                "will be removed in ovos_utils 0.1.0")
+    # This includes both the user config and
+    # /etc/xdg/mycroft/mycroft.conf
+    xdg_paths = list(reversed(
+        [join(p, get_config_filename())
+         for p in get_xdg_config_dirs()]
+    ))
+    return xdg_paths
+
+
+def get_xdg_data_dirs():
+    LOG.warning("configuration moved to the `ovos_config` package. This submodule "
+                "will be removed in ovos_utils 0.1.0")
+    try:
+        from ovos_config.locations import get_xdg_data_dirs as _get
+        return _get()
+    except ImportError:
+        return [expanduser("~/.local/share/mycroft")]
+
+
+def get_xdg_config_dirs(folder=None):
+    LOG.warning("configuration moved to the `ovos_config` package. This submodule "
+                "will be removed in ovos_utils 0.1.0")
+    try:
+        from ovos_config.locations import get_xdg_config_dirs as _get
+        return _get()
+    except ImportError:
+        folder = folder or get_xdg_base()
+        xdg_dirs = xdg.xdg_config_dirs() + [xdg.xdg_config_home()]
+        return [join(path, folder) for path in xdg_dirs]
+
+
+def get_xdg_cache_save_path(folder=None):
+    LOG.warning("configuration moved to the `ovos_config` package. This submodule "
+                "will be removed in ovos_utils 0.1.0")
+    try:
+        from ovos_config.locations import get_xdg_cache_save_path as _get
+        return _get()
+    except ImportError:
+        folder = folder or get_xdg_base()
+        return join(xdg.xdg_cache_home(), folder)
+
+
 def get_xdg_data_save_path():
+    LOG.warning("configuration moved to the `ovos_config` package. This submodule "
+                "will be removed in ovos_utils 0.1.0")
     try:
         from ovos_config.locations import get_xdg_data_save_path as _get
         return _get()
@@ -29,23 +137,66 @@ def get_xdg_data_save_path():
         return expanduser("~/.local/share/mycroft")
 
 
-def get_xdg_data_dirs():
+def get_xdg_config_save_path():
+    LOG.warning("configuration moved to the `ovos_config` package. This submodule "
+                "will be removed in ovos_utils 0.1.0")
     try:
-        from ovos_config.locations import get_xdg_data_dirs as _get
+        from ovos_config.locations import get_xdg_config_save_path as _get
         return _get()
     except ImportError:
-        return [expanduser("~/.local/share/mycroft")]
+        return expanduser("~/.config/mycroft")
 
 
-def get_default_lang():
+def is_using_xdg():
+    """ DEPRECATED """
+    LOG.warning("configuration moved to the `ovos_config` package. This submodule "
+                "will be removed in ovos_utils 0.1.0")
+    return True
+
+
+def set_xdg_base(*args, **kwargs):
+    LOG.warning("configuration moved to the `ovos_config` package. This submodule "
+                "will be removed in ovos_utils 0.1.0")
     try:
-        from ovos_config.locale import get_default_lang as _get
+        from ovos_config.meta import set_xdg_base as _set
+        _set(*args, **kwargs)
+    except:
+        pass
+
+
+def set_config_filename(*args, **kwargs):
+    LOG.warning("configuration moved to the `ovos_config` package. This submodule "
+                "will be removed in ovos_utils 0.1.0")
+    try:
+        from ovos_config.meta import config_filename as _set
+        _set(*args, **kwargs)
+    except:
+        pass
+
+
+def get_config_filename():
+    LOG.warning("configuration moved to the `ovos_config` package. This submodule "
+                "will be removed in ovos_utils 0.1.0")
+    try:
+        from ovos_config.locale import get_config_filename as _get
         return _get()
     except ImportError:
-        return read_mycroft_config().get("lang", "en-us")
+        return "mycroft.conf"
+
+
+def get_ovos_default_config_paths():
+    LOG.warning("configuration moved to the `ovos_config` package. This submodule "
+                "will be removed in ovos_utils 0.1.0")
+    try:
+        from ovos_config.meta import get_ovos_default_config_paths as _get
+        return _get()
+    except:
+        return ["/etc/OpenVoiceOS/ovos.conf"]
 
 
 def read_mycroft_config():
+    LOG.warning("configuration moved to the `ovos_config` package. This submodule "
+                "will be removed in ovos_utils 0.1.0")
     try:
         from ovos_config import Configuration
         return Configuration()
@@ -62,6 +213,8 @@ def read_mycroft_config():
 
 
 def update_mycroft_config(config, path=None, bus=None):
+    LOG.warning("configuration moved to the `ovos_config` package. This submodule "
+                "will be removed in ovos_utils 0.1.0")
     try:
         from ovos_config.config import update_mycroft_config as _update
         _update(config, path, bus)
@@ -74,26 +227,27 @@ def update_mycroft_config(config, path=None, bus=None):
         json.dump(config, f, indent=2)
 
 
-# ovos-config not installed, optional compat imports below don't matter
+def set_default_config(*args, **kwargs):
+    LOG.warning("configuration moved to the `ovos_config` package. This submodule "
+                "will be removed in ovos_utils 0.1.0")
+    try:
+        from ovos_config.meta import set_default_config as _set
+        _set(*args, **kwargs)
+    except:
+        pass
+
+
+def save_ovos_core_config(*args, **kwargs):
+    LOG.warning("configuration moved to the `ovos_config` package. This submodule "
+                "will be removed in ovos_utils 0.1.0")
+    try:
+        from ovos_config.meta import save_ovos_config as _set
+        _set(*args, **kwargs)
+    except:
+        pass
+
+
 try:
-    from ovos_config.locations import (
-        get_xdg_config_dirs,
-        get_xdg_config_save_path,
-        get_xdg_cache_save_path,
-        find_default_config,
-        find_user_config,
-        get_config_locations,
-        get_webcache_location,
-        get_xdg_config_locations)
-    from ovos_config.meta import (
-        get_ovos_config,
-        get_ovos_default_config_paths,
-        is_using_xdg,
-        set_xdg_base,
-        set_config_filename,
-        set_default_config,
-        get_config_filename
-    )
     from ovos_config.models import (
         LocalConf,
         ReadOnlyConfig,
@@ -102,9 +256,143 @@ def update_mycroft_config(config, path=None, bus=None):
         MycroftSystemConfig,
         MycroftXDGConfig
     )
-    from ovos_config.meta import save_ovos_config as save_ovos_core_config
 except ImportError:
-    from ovos_utils.log import LOG
+    LOG.warning("configuration classes moved to the `ovos_config.models` package. "
+                "This submodule will be removed in ovos_utils 0.1.0")
+    from combo_lock import NamedLock
+    import yaml
+    from ovos_utils.json_helper import load_commented_json, merge_dict
 
-    LOG.warning("configuration moved to the `ovos_config` package. This submodule "
-                "will be removed in ovos_utils 0.1.0")
+
+    class LocalConf(dict):
+        """Config dictionary from file."""
+        allow_overwrite = True
+        # lock is shared among all subclasses,
+        # regardless of what file is being edited only one file should change at a time
+        # this ensure orderly behaviour in anything monitoring changes,
+        #   eg FileWatcher util, configuration.patch bus handlers
+        __lock = NamedLock("ovos_config")
+
+        def __init__(self, path):
+            super().__init__(self)
+            self.path = path
+            if path:
+                self.load_local(path)
+
+        def _get_file_format(self, path=None):
+            """The config file format
+            supported file extensions:
+            - json (.json)
+            - commented json (.conf)
+            - yaml (.yaml/.yml)
+
+            returns "yaml" or "json"
+            """
+            path = path or self.path
+            if not path:
+                return "dict"
+            if path.endswith(".yml") or path.endswith(".yaml"):
+                return "yaml"
+            else:
+                return "json"
+
+        def load_local(self, path=None):
+            """Load local json file into self.
+
+            Args:
+                path (str): file to load
+            """
+            path = path or self.path
+            if not path:
+                LOG.error(f"in memory configuration, nothing to load")
+                return
+            if exists(path) and isfile(path):
+                with self.__lock:
+                    try:
+                        if self._get_file_format(path) == "yaml":
+                            with open(path) as f:
+                                config = yaml.safe_load(f)
+                        else:
+                            config = load_commented_json(path)
+                        if config:
+                            for key in config:
+                                self.__setitem__(key, config[key])
+                            LOG.debug(f"Configuration {path} loaded")
+                        else:
+                            LOG.debug(f"Empty config found at: {path}")
+                    except Exception as e:
+                        LOG.exception(f"Error loading configuration '{path}'")
+            else:
+                LOG.debug(f"Configuration '{path}' not defined, skipping")
+
+        def reload(self):
+            self.load_local(self.path)
+
+        def store(self, path=None):
+            path = path or self.path
+            if not path:
+                LOG.error(f"in memory configuration, no save location")
+                return
+            with self.__lock:
+                if self._get_file_format(path) == "yaml":
+                    with open(path, 'w+') as f:
+                        yaml.dump(dict(self), f, allow_unicode=True,
+                                  default_flow_style=False, sort_keys=False)
+                else:
+                    with open(path, 'w+') as f:
+                        json.dump(self, f, indent=2)
+
+        def merge(self, conf):
+            merge_dict(self, conf)
+
+
+    class ReadOnlyConfig(LocalConf):
+        """ read only  """
+
+        def __init__(self, path, allow_overwrite=False):
+            super().__init__(path)
+            self.allow_overwrite = allow_overwrite
+
+        def reload(self):
+            old = self.allow_overwrite
+            self.allow_overwrite = True
+            super().reload()
+            self.allow_overwrite = old
+
+        def __setitem__(self, key, value):
+            if not self.allow_overwrite:
+                raise PermissionError(f"{self.path} is read only! it can not be modified at runtime")
+            super().__setitem__(key, value)
+
+        def merge(self, *args, **kwargs):
+            if not self.allow_overwrite:
+                raise PermissionError(f"{self.path} is read only! it can not be modified at runtime")
+            super().merge(*args, **kwargs)
+
+        def store(self, path=None):
+            if not self.allow_overwrite:
+                raise PermissionError(f"{self.path} is read only! it can not be modified at runtime")
+            super().store(path)
+
+
+    class MycroftDefaultConfig(ReadOnlyConfig):
+        def __init__(self):
+            super().__init__(join(get_xdg_config_save_path(), get_config_filename()))
+
+        def set_root_config_path(self, root_config):
+            # in case we got it wrong / non standard
+            self.path = root_config
+            self.reload()
+
+
+    class MycroftSystemConfig(ReadOnlyConfig):
+        def __init__(self, allow_overwrite=False):
+            super().__init__("/etc/mycroft/mycroft.conf", allow_overwrite)
+
+
+    class RemoteConf(LocalConf):
+        def __init__(self, cache=get_webcache_location()):
+            super(RemoteConf, self).__init__(cache)
+
+
+    MycroftXDGConfig = MycroftUserConfig = MycroftDefaultConfig