PyScript compatibility #458
Replies: 6 comments 6 replies
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👋 Hi folks... Thanks for the ping Chris. Umm... so @chrisbuerginrogers is a totally amazing professor at Tufts, Boston, USA. I'm based in the UK and work on the open source project PyScript, which is basically a platform for Python in the browser (using WASM). We've been collaborating for, well I can't remember how long, so it must be a long time... and we both share a passion for engineering education. The thing about PyScript and Python in the browser is that you don't have to install anything on your local machine (it's all in the browser, shared via a URL), Python packages you may use are kept within the browser sandbox, AND you get access to all the funky APIs modern browser have, such as BLE, web-serial, camera, speech synthesis and all sorts of fun stuff. Clearly Chris sees your project as something to explore for pedagogical purposes, and wouldn't it be cool to be able to use it with just a modern web browser..? How can we help make this happen? (If this is of interest.) |
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fyi @Tobias-Fischer, given the work presented in https://arxiv.org/pdf/2409.09941 . |
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Hi @chrisbuerginrogers and @ntoll, As @traversaro said, we've been working toward a very similar aim, and you can read what we've been up to in https://arxiv.org/abs/2409.09941. Rather than using PyScript, we've been opting for https://emscripten-forge.org/. In addition to Peter's toolbox, we've also managed to compile ROS2 for WASM (which was much more challenging ..). At the moment, the demos are scattered and not yet polished:
Note that I got some funding so that @nmarticorena will work on polishing these demos in a few weeks time. Would be great to collaborate if you are interested. |
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Excellent - I will follow up with an email around collaboration. I tried out your ROS2 WASM site - very cool - @ntoll - can we leverage that? Having ROS2 in a PyScript page would be excellent. I was challenged by iRobot to see if we could have first years using ROS2 with their Create - this was the result. It worked - but required a Tufts server with ROS2 installed - your solution would be more elegant. |
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Hi Folks 👋 This is such an interesting endeavour for all sorts of reasons: Python, WASM, conda (my employer is Anaconda, originators of this technology, although not the same as emscriptenforge). So I guess we should compare notes. PyScript (technical docs here, source code here) is simply an easy to use platform for Python in the browser. With just a single reference in the We chose Pyodide as our version of CPython because it is simply the most mature project, we have an excellent collaborative relationship with its core maintainers, they have already working versions of the most commom C-based tools such as I've very quickly skimmed the paper to which you link. As far as I can tell (caveat - I've probably missed something), the core surrounds making Regarding MicroPython, it's very small, fast and works exceptionally well in a browser context. When you don't need everything-but-the-kitchen-sink in Pyodide, but just a lightweight Python, MicroPython is ideal. Furthermore, there's a well documented way to create Python APIs that wrap C code, in MicroPython. This is very different to the world of CPython, most particularly because the C code is compiled into a bespoke build of MicroPython itself. That is delivered to the browser as a single asset. I'm mentioning this, not only for size/speed or startup reasons, but because Damien (creator of MicroPython) is a former Robo World Cup participant (so has an advanced background in robotics) and is Australian. ;-) I'm just thinking of the Venn diagram of shared interests and how such overlaps often lead to fruitful collaborations. Also, Chris has made extensive use of MicroPython in embedded (robotic) devices controlled by various microcontrollers... so the "stack" is always the familiar MicroPython. See, especially, is amazing work (and the work of his students) with Lego Spike Prime devices. Anyway. How does this sound..? Happy to answer questions and dig into details further. If you're happy for me to do so, I can bring in various PyScript collaborators and some |
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Hi @ntoll - let’s loop in @DerThorsten / @IsabelParedes / @wolfv who are much more informed about differences and similarities between Pyodide and emscripten-forge / PyScript and PyJS. What advantages do you see of using Pyodide over emscripten-forge? We have NumPy etc there as well. Is it mainly the MicroPython aspect? |
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We should probably also move this discussion elsewhere by the way :) |
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Hey hey. The advantages? Chris gets his cake and eats it. ;-) My motivation (and my default modus operandi) is to discover interesting and innovative ways in which folks can complement and amplify each other's work while mutually learning, growing and collaborating. Open source is my thing, creating a space in which communities can flourish is generally my approach. In my experience, when this way of working is embraced unforeseen yet rather wonderful outcomes tend to happen. This feels like a good opportunity for such a process. Also, ROS becomes useful in several web based contexts (be that PyScript, Pyodide, MicroPython or emscripten-forge contexts). What's not to like about that? ;-) Also, yes about discussion location... I'm flexible, so please suggest alternatives (although I appreciate that discussions in GitHub are in the open for everyone to follow and find). |
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Hi all - I am happy to move the discussion anywhere - but my "cake" is that I want students to be able to focus on key concepts, not installations (and we all know the headaches there - with large range of student computers). My dream is Notion+Jupyter+PyScript+GitHub+ROS2 in one tight package (it should be as easy to drop in some ROS calls and run them as it is to drop in a mathematical equation). Last year I brought openCV into my class with PyScript and within 45 min all students had something that took an image, subtracted different planes, looked at histograms, and found blobs. This year in 30 min, they had TeachableMachines controlling their robots. Note in all cases there was no install. The power of Notion is they can then reflect on what they found (with multimedia). The advantage of GitHub is that their code is properly stored and updated. Jupyter and PyScript are similar - but I cannot get Jupyter to talk nicely to hardware over USB without a lot of secondary installs. This is not an issue in PyScript. Also in PyScript I can teach about user interface. This site has all the different things I use. Note that you can try it all out with one click (maybe this is old news to you all but it is great to me - after 30+ years of working in K-16 classrooms). Thanks |
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Interesting conversation! @jezdez @wolfv and myself talked about this (or some very similar flavor) earlier this year and we've talked about this in the past. I'd love to resume this and collaborate towards shared goals. tldr; what I'd like to see happening is the decoupling Longer Version PyScript is a pluggable platform and, fwiw, aims support as many interpreters as are needed by our users. So, from the PyScript project perspective, in on what interpreter works best for what scenario (ex: need something light, fast and don't need specific CPython libraries? MicroPython is likely the best candidate for loading perf reasons! Need to use specific CPython dependencies? A CPython compatible interpreter (Pyodide or what is in We can definitely look into @DerThorsten / @IsabelParedes / @wolfv / @jezdez / @ntoll maybe we should meet again and try to make progress on this? |
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Just thinking out loud here... if Emscriptenforge have their own Python interpreter with their unique capabilities and features, why can't that be another Python interpreter available via PyScript..? Clearly I need to understand the technical aspects of what's there. But like I said, just a thought. @DerThorsten / @IsabelParedes / @wolfv..? |
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Polite ping. Any movement on this? |
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Hi all - thanks for the robotics toolbox (and @peter - sweet website - I have used it a bit in the past) - looks pretty awesome - I am hoping to embed it into a PyScript page so that I can customize (and then my students can too) a UI for robot control. It would be great to embed Swift as well - if possible. This is for an introductory robotics course at Tufts University. If you all are at all interested, let me introduce Nicholas (@ntoll ) - he is part of the PyScript team at Anaconda (he and I do a lot of education robotics stuff - he, Mu and I, LEGO). If you all are interested - it would be cool to also link it with a bunch of ROS/Jupyter Lab stuff we have running as well. Thanks
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