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Add stylistic alternate for 19th century F clef #282

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MrFuzzywump opened this issue Oct 28, 2023 · 20 comments
Open

Add stylistic alternate for 19th century F clef #282

MrFuzzywump opened this issue Oct 28, 2023 · 20 comments
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@MrFuzzywump
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There are two symbols that I cannot find in SMuFL, those are what (I think) are called “Before 1840 C and F clefs”, before 1840 versions of C and F clefs.
image
Organ clefs before 1840

@dspreadbury dspreadbury changed the title Add stylistic alternates "Before 1840 C and F clefs" to the existing C and F clefs Add stylistic alternate for 19th century F clef Nov 5, 2023
@dspreadbury
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The C clef appearance is already included in SMuFL (it's U+E060, cClefSquare in the Clefs category).

But the F clef appearance is not currently included, so that's something we could add in future.

@dspreadbury dspreadbury self-assigned this Nov 5, 2023
@dspreadbury dspreadbury added this to the SMuFL 1.5 milestone Nov 5, 2023
@MrFuzzywump
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MrFuzzywump commented Nov 21, 2023

I found another example of the "Before 1840 C and F clefs" (1835):
image

@MrFuzzywump
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I found another example of the "Before 1840 F clef" (1839)
image

@mscuthbert
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They're everywhere. The question is whether this is a separate glyph or a different font? Because just about everything looks different in 19th century publications.

@MrFuzzywump
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MrFuzzywump commented Nov 23, 2023

This is the bass clef from before 1840 (year < 1840). This is a stylistic alternate. Just like the "Before 1840 C clef" I mentioned earlier.
I also found another score that has the "Before 1840 C and F clefs" (1791):
image

@MrFuzzywump
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I also found another score that has the "Before 1840 C and F clefs" (1795):
image
image

@MrFuzzywump
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I also found another score that has the "Before 1840 C and F clefs" (1787):
image

@MrFuzzywump
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I also found another score that has the "Before 1840 C and F clefs" (1785):
image
image
image

@MrFuzzywump
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MrFuzzywump commented Nov 23, 2023

I also found another score that has the "Before 1840 C and F clefs" (1784):
image
image

@MrFuzzywump
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I based mine on the common time symbol:
image

@MrFuzzywump
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What would you base the "Before 1840 F clef" on?

@MrFuzzywump
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The "Before 1840 F clef" was used before 1840, hence the name, and in the 18th century.

@MrFuzzywump
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I have disagreement on whether it's 18th century or 19th century

@MrFuzzywump
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We have disagreement on whether it's 18th century or 19th century

@MrFuzzywump
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I would call it simply earlyModernFClef since we have disagreement on whether it's 18th century or 19th century and that term mostly covers either.

@MrFuzzywump
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I also found another score that has the "Before 1840 C and F clefs" (1800):
image

@mscuthbert
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Again, it seems to me that this is a different font, not a different meaning. Nearly every symbol on the page looks different. I don't know if we want to include it in smufl except perhaps the bass clef as a stylistic alternate. You don't need to post more examples: I'm sure Daniel is well aware that the clef is different.

You'll also find the glyphs in Band parts and hymnals up to 1920 or even 1930.

@MrFuzzywump
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I also found another score that has the "Before 1840 F clef" (1794):
image

@MrFuzzywump
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The C clef appearance is already included in SMuFL (it's U+E060, cClefSquare in the Clefs category).

But the F clef appearance is not currently included, so that's something we could add in future.

MuseScore refers to the C clef appearance as "C clef, H shape (19th century)"

@w3c w3c locked and limited conversation to collaborators Jul 17, 2024
@mscuthbert
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@MrFuzzywump -- it has been requested several times that you not continue to add more examples of these well known stylistic alternates to this issue. Locking for now. Any owner can unlock.

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