increases resin jelly duration #16750
Conversation
tgstation-server
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Balance
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You should decrease the duration on being able to build resin jelly pods or create jelly, and make it a pure plasma cost, instead of increasing the duration on the buff that makes you totally immune to all fire and lava (even X-fuel). This change allows you to just run through an entire incendiary OB twice. Personally I don't think it needs a buff at all, it's already fucked up when it gets used, but I'd prefer a more reasonable buff. |
This is the explicit intention of the PR. It doesn't matter how much resin jelly you can make if it lasts approximately 2 seconds once you get in combat. Fire is incredibly easy to spam across large areas and xenos have very recently received a mass stat change that lowered movement speed. This has been a long time coming. |
It takes like 4 seconds max to get to fighting, 1 if it's directly applied by a drone or something. That's 11+ seconds of being immune to fire. |
you have to retreat, too. Across the fire. |
Play warrior |
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Just so you know, resin jelly pods produce one jelly every 50 seconds, and grant 15 seconds of immunity. That means that you only need about 3.33.. jelly pods to keep one xeno perpetually immune to fire forever, and most of the time you heal for up to 15 seconds in the first place, so only about 1.66.. jelly pods to keep one xeno perpetually immune. By prep time standards (16 minutes), at the start of the game, 8 xenos can be totally immune to fire. They take 1 minute to place, and so it takes one hivelord 2 minutes to grant a xeno total immunity to fire. Realistically not all xenos need fire immunity at the same time, because one of them (warrior) makes great use of the fire, and can throw the marine through the flames into other xenos so that the rest of them don't need fire immunity. |
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Never really had an issue just throwing it on a beano and they do their short rotation and come back. |
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Doubling it seems funky why not 20 secs or 25? Or why not make it only lose duration while standing in fire or taking damage? If the problem is you lose 90% of it's duration getting to the fight? |
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Is this mechanic why xenos also seem to be immune to laser weapons at times? |
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Just make it not activate until you take fire damage, then kick down the 15 second counter. Lasts a full minute sitting by idly then wastes away. |
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I feel like this PR is the wrong direction to go. I already see xenos happily ignore flames to run in, do their rotation, and run out through flames again and just... don't care, outside of the low castes. Flames are really ineffective as area denial unless a xeno player is new and doesn't realize how insignificant they are. And do things like wade into lava without much thought to pull marines in. Even very weak minions can withstand flames long enough to batter fortifications before dying. Last few days I've also seen things like a warlock just sit in flames while reflecting. And then all the upper combat castes never fear flames to run in and slash/ram/etc, that warriors can turn it around and inflict serious damage tossing marines in, etc. I don't think making flames even more of a nonissue is the way to go. If anything, I think flames should be scarier for xenos. |
Nevermind that the xenos that place them down can also just pull one from the ether as an ability. |
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@YehnBeep If there's need for deadlier flames, X-Fuel exists |
It just feels a bit cheap to me that one side is "Hey you can use this but it's also a huge hazard to your own team, hindering their movement and potentially causing great harm if people get pushed in by their own team or fished in by the enemy" while the other is "You can just ignore it most of the time, go in, do your rotation, go out again and it just costs you maybe 1 or 2 pips of your healthbar more." I guess it's fair to say "Well it's just a terrain clearing tool anyways" but I don't think we should be going further down the "flames are just nothing to you" road, personally. |
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What about just making it so that fire makes xenos confused like ungas are when they're druggy? Maybe a brief two or three seconds of it post a stack being applied? |
effecting movement is a no go personally |
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I dont believe jelly really needs this tbh, 15 seconds, and with pyrogen existing, they dont suffer as much from fire as they used to |
About The Pull Request
15 seconds -> 30
Why It's Good For The Game
fifteen fucking seconds is wayyyyy too short of a duration given how slow resin jelly is to produce, how easily spammable fire is, and how many xenos need it at once. Maybe 15 is acceptable for like, a spitter, or something, but xenos' main mode of engagement is still melee.
Not to mention that in the big xeno buff PR, the general trend was to make xenos slower, but have more health. This obviously reduces the effectiveness of resin jelly, as it makes engaging and disengaging much slower.
Changelog
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balance: Increases resin jelly duration from 15 seconds to 30 seconds.
/:cl: